Simple question which I feel like I might have asked before.I’ll go with the Attitude Era Raw theme.  It’s great for firing people up for the show as it’s hard rock which fits in well for the theme of the show.

Thoughts/picks?

I’m sure all of you at some point have thought about who the best wrestler ever is. Well on WrestleZone, every year we try to figure out who he is. We take 128 of the greatest wrestlers of all time from around the world and rank then like the NCAA Basketball Tournament. Over the next 6 weeks, we’ll narrow down the field is down to one. This is the biggest event of the forums and I’m personally running the tournament for the third straight year. We hope you’ll join us for a very fun event and some excellent discussion.

Here’s a link to the main tournament section of the forums:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=404

And the brackets:

http://challonge.com/tournament/bracket_generator?ref=CHLEXYHAJI

Please keep in mind that in order to vote in a poll, we require you to have ten non-spam posts. This is done to prevent people from flooding the polls in someone’s favor unfairly.

If you have any questions feel free to ask me here.

KB

With Brock’s return last Monday, I figured this would be a good topic. Read the title. What’s yours’?I have to go with Undertaker at Judgment Day 2000.  It came out of nowhere and he had been gone just long enough that you had forgotten he was gone but he wasn’t completely forgotten yet.  The fact that it was the ending to a great match helps too.

Thoughts?

In the last four days, WWE has had two great shows and has shocked us with a few great moments. There are a ton of questions that we have now and it’s very unclear where things are going. It’s WWE proving yet again that they can turn it on at the drop of a hat and be the most intriguing company in the world.

Cue various people saying it’s boring and uninteresting because they have to try to sound smart.

I mentioned this in a comment the other night but didn’t realize I hadn’t published it.This is the term that I hear used the most incorrectly around here and it’s time you guys got a brief lesson on what it means.

Let’s start by defining a burial. To bury someone in wrestling means that they are shoved down the card and no longer have the spot that they had. On top of that (adding more dirt onto it if you will) it means you’re not coming back out of it for a long time. In essence it means you’re done. There is next to no hope for your recovery and return to the spot you once had unless something major changes for you and probably others ahead of you.

And now, for one of the most important things I’ve ever say on here or anywhere else regarding wrestling. If you never pay attention to anything else I say, learn this for the collective intelligence of the planet: [b]You cannot be buried in one match.[/b] This is the biggest problem people seem to have with the term. For some reason there’s a mentality that says if you lose EVER, your career is over and you’re being buried. This is completely incorrect and I have no idea where this notion came from.

People lose matches. It has to happen. Losses mean nothing in wrestling. It’s all about the way you lose. Let’s take a look at an example. Christian hasn’t won a match that meant anything in months correct? I don’t think anyone would argue he’s anything less than the third biggest heel on Smackdown and arguably the second biggest. He loses all the time and yet he’s still every bit as over as he was when he started losing. For an older example, look at Chris Jericho, who lost clean to Evan Bourne on PPV. Did that bury him? Of course not. It put Bourne over, which is the point of a win like that.

So many times people mistake a rub for a burial. Tonight on Smackdown Orton lost to Barrett almost clean. Barrett looks like a bigger star and a more credible threat. Orton is going to be the top guy on Smackdown for a very long time even though he lost here. He’s down in the card more than he was over the summer, but he’s not being buried. Another reason you might lose a match is to turn. Razor Ramon got beat by a jobber named the 1-2-3 Kid clean on Raw but it wasn’t to bury him. It was to start his face turn that put him at his greatest glory ever in WWF.

For our final example, let’s look at an actual burial: Drew McIntyre. Drew was once the hottest thing in the company, on an undefeated streak and depending on various reports you might read, in line to win the world title by the end of the year. Then his wife got him in trouble and his push stopped. Drew stopped winning matches, stopped being featured, stopped being talked about, and now is lucky to get squashed once a month. It took time for him to go down the card to the point where it’s rare to see him on TV. He’s been buried and it took months to do so.

Get the idea now? There will be a quiz later.

This seems like an appropriate topic with Wrestlemania being about two weeks away. This is something that is very important and can really make or break a company if not done right. Yet for some reason over the years, it’s very rarely been done right. On Rise and Fall of ECW, Heyman talked about Terry Funk wanting to get the next generation ready so that there was a business to pass on to them. That’s what we’re getting at today so let’s get to it.

Now first and foremost, there’s a BIG difference between giving someone a rub and passing the torch to someone else. Back in the 80s, Hogan tagged with a bunch of guys that were known names but didn’t become anything important until they were his best friend for a few months of house show tag matches. Then they’d be Hogan’s partner for awhile and they’d be bigger stars than ever before. That’s giving someone a rub.

Passing the torch means that you make someone the new big name in the company. We’ll get to examples of that later on, but the main idea is that someone is either leaving, is dropping down the card after being on top for a long while, or that the other person is going to be taking their place. To use the example from earlier, Hogan wasn’t going anywhere and wasn’t moving down the card. He was still top dog but the others were up higher than they were before. That’s an important difference.

On second thought, this was going to just be about passing the torch but I might as well cover rubs in here too. We’ll get to passing the torch first.

Let’s go back to the past as I’m known to do. The better example is probably King Jackie Fargo passing the torch to King Jerry Lawler but we’ll go with something actually in the last thirty years with Harley Race and Ric Flair. Now let’s take a good look at what put this together and why it was a true passing of the torch. There were a lot of factors that came together to make it work.

First of all, Flair was already a big name. He was a two time NWA World Champion and was well established as a top guy. This is important to passing the torch because if you want someone like Race to go out, this is how you do it: to a guy that has proven he can do something already. Otherwise you might need to go to someone else which makes the moment weaker.

Second, this was built up. It had a long and personal angle to it which resulted in real emotion. Race had put a $25,000 bounty on Flair’s head and it was cashed in, resulting in Flair being put out of action for months. He took care of the attackers and then came after Race to take the championship and get his revenge. It was an angle that people wanted to see get paid off which makes the match that much more interesting.

Third, the match was great. It’s a classic old school cage match with Race working him over and Flair making the comeback for the pin and the big moment. It was also in the main event of the first Starrcade, which at the time was the biggest card ever put together. Look at Cena vs. Rock this year: they’re having this match in the main event of Wrestlemania after a year of these two arguing and bickering. In short: take your time and make the match feel important.

Most importantly though, RACE LEFT. After this happened, Race was gone from the NWA spotlight. There was a three day title change in New Zealand but other than that, Race went back to the smaller territories and eventually on to the WWF. Now, that’s not to say that Race couldn’t have come back in a smaller role. If Race had come back in say a year or even six months it would have been fine, as long as he didn’t challenge for the title or feud with Flair. That’s one of the main things: Race didn’t try to come back against Flair. He had been defeated and was done.

There really aren’t that many of these moments to talk about in history, and since most of them have been done well there isn’t really a point to going through them one by one because they would all mostly say the same thing. The other few of note are the Fargo/Lawler one that I mentioned earlier, Austin vs. Michaels in 1998, HHH vs. Batista in 2005, and really those are all of the major ones.

Now let’s get to the problems that can come up when these rules are broken. This can also be called The Hogan Section.

Hogan has had a few chances to pass the torch onto someone else and both times he’s broken one of the aforementioned rules and caused the next person to not be able to do as well on top. We’ll start in 1990 at Wrestlemania 6. You could argue the first time was at #4 with Savage but the end result of that was ALWAYS Hogan vs. Savage for the title the next year so I can’t fault Hogan for that as it was part of a major angle instead of Hogan not going away. Anyone on to #6.

I don’t think anyone would argue that the main event of that show was designed to be a moment where Warrior became the top guy. However in short, Hogan didn’t leave. He stuck around in 1990 and feuded with Earthquake, taking all of the spotlight (as well as the top and most obvious feud for Warrior) from the new champion. The right thing would have been for Hogan to take AT LEAST a few months off and made a movie or whatever.

Instead he stuck around and therefore made Warrior look like a second rate guy, which made the main event of Wrestlemania completely pointless. Warrior was a failure as the top guy but there was never a real chance for him to be the top guy. Everyone thought that Hogan was still top dog and him simply not having the title wasn’t going to prove that wrong. Considering Warrior barely beat him, it didn’t really prove that Warrior was the top guy. Instead of passing the torch, Hogan basically gave Warrior the title for about 7 months and then got it back later. Good for him, bad for Warrior.

Jumping to WCW, we have the moment that was a big bullet to WCW in the Monday Night Wars. Sting FINALLY stopped Hogan and won the (nearly) year and a half long title reign and it should have been the end of an era in WCW. This is probably the biggest botch of one of these things ever. First of all, the match sucked for reasons that you can read elsewhere. Second, Sting didn’t get to even hold the physical title for two months, so how much do you think the fans cared by that point? Third, Sting officially won the title in February and Hogan had it back by mid-April. Sting is defeated, Hogan is champion AGAIN, and the fans are screwed over.

The third example of Hogan doing this would be in 1998 with Goldberg. Now to be fair this was probably much more about WCW than Hogan, but depending on what you believe about Hogan having creative control in the back, that could be a matter of debate. Also to Hogan’s credit, he lost the match clean (mostly) and never got his win back against Goldberg, which is a big help. However that being said, he got the title back in just a few months. There was WAY more to it than that, but at the end of the day, the problem was that Hogan had the title back about half a year later, Goldberg was defeated, and the fans were screwed over AGAIN. Sound familiar?

There are probably other example that I’m overlooking, but I think by now you more than get the idea. The WWF in 1990/1991 was in real business trouble and was even on the verge of going under for awhile. The WCW instances are times where the company took big hits because either they wouldn’t let people have the title or they wouldn’t let anyone get thrown out of the main event. The moral: bad things happen when you don’t change things when you need to.

Now onto the other topic that I wasn’t going to talk about here but it fits as well: rubs. As we’ve established, a rub is where someone is going to be sticking around but is going to bring someone else up the card by giving them some of their star power and making them look like a bigger deal. We’ll begin in the 80s, as I am known to do.

The perfect example of this is usually Flair and Sting from March 27, 1988 and there’s a good reason for that. Sting wasn’t a big time name like he is today. He was a guy that had been brought over from a regional company and was looking for his first big break in the national scene. The company knew he had talent but they needed a way to let the masses know that.

Enter Ric Flair, who in the words of Jim Cornette, made a career out of making other people look way better than they ever could have done on their own. So at the first Clash of the Champions, Sting fought Flair for the NWA Title and had him in the Scorpion when the bell rang and the time was up. Flair made Sting look AWESOME that night and Sting became a huge star because of it. Flair kept the title and would for a good while, but Sting was a major player all of a sudden. I think you get the idea.

There are dozens of other examples from history that I could go into, such as the tag teams that Hogan had which I mentioned earlier and Bret vs. Austin in 96/97, but you more than get the point by now. On the other hand, there are examples of times where bigger names lose matches, but the win doesn’t do a thing for the smaller name guy. Let’s take a look at a quick example.

I hate to do this again, but the best example is Hulk Hogan. In the year 2000, Hogan lost to Billy Kidman. What’s forgotten about this is that Hogan DOMINATED Kidman and Kidman won after Bischoff hit Hogan with a chair. The win didn’t do anything for Kidman because it didn’t look like he had a chance to beat Hogan in a fair fight. The same thing is true of instances like jobbers pinning big names, such as Brooklyn Brawler pinning HHH in the year 2000. Rock had a bit of a hand in that loss, but HHH still gets made fun of for it on occasion. Again, I think you get the idea.

So anyway, in short there are good ways and bad ways of passing the torch, and hopefully Rock does it with Cena at Wrestlemania. Rock is a guy who a victory over would still mean a lot and I just hope they don’t screw it up somehow. Rubs and passing the torch are very important things in wrestling, and if you don’t do them right they can turn out very badly indeed.

Money in the Bank has ruined a lot about wrestling. It causes multiple problems and is a major reason why the world titles don’t mean anything anymore. Granted there are other reasons like automatic rematch clauses but we’ll get into those later. Anyway, there are a lot of things that MITB does which hurts wrestling and I felt like talking about them a bit so let’s get to it.

First and foremost, the title changes mean NOTHING. A few years ago at a PWG show in California, Kevin Steen gave someone three package piledrivers then put his six month old son on top of the guy that took the piledrivers and counted three, making the son undefeated as a wrestler. It was cute and everyone laughed and all that jazz. It was ok because it didn’t mean anything and was used to make a joke. WWE does the same thing, including once at Summerslam last year in front of 17,000 people at the biggest show of the year.

Let’s take either Alberto’s or Bryan’s win as an example here. Those wins don’t prove anything. There was a battle royal once where Jimmy Hart hid under the ring for the whole match but then ran in after everyone else was eliminated to win the match. It was a joke and the whole place erupted in booing. I could give you a dozen examples of matches just like that. You know what the one connecting factor would be? None of them would be for the world title. MITB breaks that rule.

It’s a joke instead of a real match. The guy that cashes in hasn’t proven he’s better than the former champion. Look back to Flair in 1991 in WCW. Lex Luger never beat him, so why should people have accepted Luger as the rightful champion? There was no reason to, so no one did. It’s the same here. Why should I have accepted Bryan as the world champion? He didn’t beat Big Show. He pinned a guy that was already beaten. Yes I get that that’s the point of his heel turn, but just like everything else in wrestling, it’s been done into the ground.

This brings me to my second issue: MITB allows the writers to be lazy. MITB has become a nuclear option in case something needs to be changed in a hurry. Don’t have someone built up (Oh we’ll get to that soon enough)? Let them cash in. Someone not working as champion? Give someone a briefcase. Want to give us a surprise with no thinking to it that gives you a way out of your bad stories? Here’s MITB to the rescue!

The writers are already lazy enough. They’ve come up with so many tricks to buy themselves months off (automatic rematch clauses for example) that they don’t need to actually think anymore. The writers need all the exercise they can get to show them what works and what doesn’t, so having then being allowed to just throw something out there with no thinking to it is making things even worse.

Don’t believe me that they need to be made to think? Flash back to the Attitude Era. The company was in big trouble and had to be pushed harder and harder to come up with new storylines. What was the result? Compelling storylines that had people glued to their sets every week to see what happened next. Now you get the same story every year. And their solution to the problem? DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF CASES!!!

That ties into the next problem with the cases: they’re repetitive. At the end of the day, the winner has a perfect record with it. The shock value of it is fine for a few moments, but there’s nothing new to them. It’s like watching a great movie for the first time then watching the story being rehashed in a bunch of sequels. It’s cool the second time but after that, it really starts to get dull because you’ve seen it time after time.

Somehow the process needs to be switched up. First of all, drop it down to less competitors in the ladder match. Eight people is just WAY too many as you can’t keep track of what’s going on and it drains the rest of the card because everyone is in the ladder match. Cut it down to five or six and things would be much more interesting. The other thing, which has been beaten into the ground over the years but needs to be said again, is that someone needs to lose their cash-in attempt.

Money in the Bank was built on the idea of it could happen at anytime. When Edge originally cashed in, it was shocking because you didn’t see it coming. It’s a legit surprise and a great moment because it fits in with the idea that Edge was the ultimate opportunist. The second one at least had a twist on it as the cash-in was announced in advance to build to a match. Since then though, it’s been one surprise after another.

These are indeed cool at the moment but they need something changed about them. After the cash-in, the shock is gone and you’d left realizing how weak of a champion that person has become. In order to rebuild the shock value, they need to slow things down. This could be done by either cutting the amount of cases down to one, or having the surprise element taken out. Have someone cash in at a designated time like RVD did. Use it on a major Raw or at a PPV.

Daniel Bryan talked about doing it that way and cashing in at Wrestlemania, but at the end of the day we get the same thing all over again: someone cashing in as a surprise when the champion was down and the title change means nothing. Instead, spend the next few cash-ins on matches that are announced in advance. If nothing else it lets you build up to something instead of hoping that the people watch in hopes of seeing a cash-in.

However in the modern world of WWE, that’s as likely as a Diva having a match last longer than five minutes or most people caring about it. The idea is that bigger and more is better, which isn’t the case but in Vince’s mind it is. Money in the Bank is possibly not going to be its own PPV this year which would be a step in the right direction, but I doubt they’ll keep things going that way because that’s not how WWE works.

In summation, Money in the Bank is fine in the short term if you need something fixed, but the problems with it outweigh the good. It furthers the idea of being lazy in creative is ok and that there’s no need to give the fans a reason to care about guys as long as you do something that shocks them. It’s rationale like that which hurt WCW and look how well they did.

The idea can be fixed but it might be too far gone. If it were up to me, I’d drop the concept. Yeah imagine that: a guy having to earn a title shot and then win the title without someone else doing all the work. Unfortunately that’s probably not going to happen because at the end of the day, this is the WWE and they’re going to use the easiest method possible anymore, which is why things are weaker lately.

I’m watching a Flair match from 1985 and it got me to thinking:In a lot of Flair matches, you would see him put his feet on the ropes or cheat in some small way.  I remember at I think Starrcade 88 he had Luger dead and could have pinned him with one finger on Luger’s chest.  Flair threw his feet on the ropes anyway on the pin.  That’s something so small and so easy, but it’ll get people to boo you every time.

In short, bad guys cheat.  It can be anything, from feet on the ropes to grabbing a rope for extra leverage to hooking some tights to poking in the eye.  Any of those little things will get the crowd to boo you because the fans know that some things are just plain cheating.  The same is true of good guys: stuff like clean breaks or offering a handshake.  As long as it’s not campy, it’ll make it clear who the good guys is.

My question: who does no one do things like this anymore?  They’re so simple but they’re guaranteed heel heat.  Is that too complicated for them?

This is something I saw a similar version of in a comment on a blog but it made a lot of sense.Picture a group of wrestlers who look different enough to tell them apart but get no substantial mic time, have a generic name and wear generic outfits.

Back in the 70s and 80s we’d call them jobbers.  Today we call most of  them superstars.

Does it ever strike anyone else as odd that a lot of the contracts for main event level matches are signed the week of the show? I’m watching a Raw from 2009 and Cena is signing to face JBL at the Rumble on the last Raw before the PPV. Shouldn’t they have this locked up earlier than that?